Comments on: Is Only Kelly Siegler Man Enough to Tell the Truth? http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/06/is-only-kelly-siegler-man-enough-to-tell-the-truth.html the tao of criminal defense trial lawyering Tue, 16 Mar 2010 05:38:00 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: JT http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/06/is-only-kelly-siegler-man-enough-to-tell-the-truth.html/comment-page-1#comment-3670 JT Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:18:16 +0000 http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/06/is-only-kelly-siegler-man-enough-to-tell-the-truth.html#comment-3670 Another major challenge is that justice has two sides. Is it just to make the victim's family feel better? Is that a Constitutional concern? Should a man be put to death or put in jail for 25-to-life so that the community can feel safer? This way of thinking is quite regressive, and once "normal" citizens find themselves in tricky situations, arrested for a crime, all of a sudden their views change on this subject. Another major challenge is that justice has two sides. Is it just to make the victim’s family feel better? Is that a Constitutional concern? Should a man be put to death or put in jail for 25-to-life so that the community can feel safer? This way of thinking is quite regressive, and once “normal” citizens find themselves in tricky situations, arrested for a crime, all of a sudden their views change on this subject.

]]> By: Jigmeister http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/06/is-only-kelly-siegler-man-enough-to-tell-the-truth.html/comment-page-1#comment-3667 Jigmeister Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:54:06 +0000 http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/06/is-only-kelly-siegler-man-enough-to-tell-the-truth.html#comment-3667 Mark, what's the progress on the Joe Mag v Racehorse case? Mark, what’s the progress on the Joe Mag v Racehorse case?

]]> By: Dudley Sharp http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/06/is-only-kelly-siegler-man-enough-to-tell-the-truth.html/comment-page-1#comment-3665 Dudley Sharp Mon, 16 Jun 2008 13:00:51 +0000 http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/06/is-only-kelly-siegler-man-enough-to-tell-the-truth.html#comment-3665 Dear Mark: Of course, I was not speaking of procedural closure. I was speaking of the emotional/psychological closure of the victim survivors, particularly in murder cases, a closure which doesn't ever truly occur. Yes, procedural closure may come much quicker with a plea. It may come even quicker with an acquittal of an actually guilty perp, as well. We all know that some pleas are litigated later. The point I was trying to make, specifically with regard to the subject article, was that Siegler is right, there is no closure to the vicitm survivors when the murderer is executed. Sure, it's closure to the legal process. But the entire point was the emotional/psychological closure. which cannot occur with execution. There is the just execution of a guilty murderer who wrongly murdered an innocent victim. Specifically, it's only closure to the legal process Dear Mark:

Of course, I was not speaking of procedural closure. I was speaking of the emotional/psychological closure of the victim survivors, particularly in murder cases, a closure which doesn’t ever truly occur.

Yes, procedural closure may come much quicker with a plea. It may come even quicker with an acquittal of an actually guilty perp, as well. We all know that some pleas are litigated later.

The point I was trying to make, specifically with regard to the subject article, was that Siegler is right, there is no closure to the vicitm survivors when the murderer is executed. Sure, it’s closure to the legal process. But the entire point was the emotional/psychological closure. which cannot occur with execution.

There is the just execution of a guilty murderer who wrongly murdered an innocent victim.

Specifically, it’s only closure to the legal process

]]> By: Monday Morning Jumpstart | a public defender http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/06/is-only-kelly-siegler-man-enough-to-tell-the-truth.html/comment-page-1#comment-3664 Monday Morning Jumpstart | a public defender Mon, 16 Jun 2008 11:09:34 +0000 http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/06/is-only-kelly-siegler-man-enough-to-tell-the-truth.html#comment-3664 [...] no such thing as [...] [...] no such thing as [...]

]]> By: Mark Bennett http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/06/is-only-kelly-siegler-man-enough-to-tell-the-truth.html/comment-page-1#comment-3662 Mark Bennett Mon, 16 Jun 2008 00:11:37 +0000 http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/06/is-only-kelly-siegler-man-enough-to-tell-the-truth.html#comment-3662 To push the idea in the first paragraph of my last comment a bit farther, Dudley, the factor of closure as you've defined it (procedural closure?) would favor a plea (meaning a plea to something other than death) rather than a trial. To push the idea in the first paragraph of my last comment a bit farther, Dudley, the factor of closure as you’ve defined it (procedural closure?) would favor a plea (meaning a plea to something other than death) rather than a trial.

]]> By: Mark Bennett http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/06/is-only-kelly-siegler-man-enough-to-tell-the-truth.html/comment-page-1#comment-3661 Mark Bennett Sun, 15 Jun 2008 23:23:52 +0000 http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/06/is-only-kelly-siegler-man-enough-to-tell-the-truth.html#comment-3661 Dudley, Closure of the legal process comes fastest with a plea (and waiver of appeal) rather than prolonged pretrial litigation followed by a trial and 10-15 years of postconviction litigation, ending only with a conviction. For good reason, we don't let the families of murder victims decide what the most just sanction is; that's appropriately a question for society to answer. Dudley,

Closure of the legal process comes fastest with a plea (and waiver of appeal) rather than prolonged pretrial litigation followed by a trial and 10-15 years of postconviction litigation, ending only with a conviction.

For good reason, we don’t let the families of murder victims decide what the most just sanction is; that’s appropriately a question for society to answer.

]]> By: Dudley Sharp http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/06/is-only-kelly-siegler-man-enough-to-tell-the-truth.html/comment-page-1#comment-3660 Dudley Sharp Sun, 15 Jun 2008 21:54:10 +0000 http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/06/is-only-kelly-siegler-man-enough-to-tell-the-truth.html#comment-3660 I know of no victim survivor who believes that the execution of the guilty murderer(s) brings closure to the emotional and/or psychological suffering  of that victim survivor for the loss of their innocent, murdered loved one(s). How could it?   I have never encountered such a person, in the many years I have been involved with murder victim survivors. Has anyone?   There are many victims survivors who claim they did find closure with the execution, although without important clarification.   Further inquiry would reveal the obvious: it is closure the the legal process, whereby execution is the most just sanction available for the crime and they are relieved that the murderer is dead  and can no longer harm another innocent - a very big deal.   Those are the real meanings of any closure expression. Murder victim "Mary Bounds' daughter, Jena Watson, who watched the execution, said Berry's action deprived the family of a mother, a grandmother and a friend, and that pain will never go away." " "We feel that we have received justice," she said Wednesday after the execution. "There's never an end to the hurt from a violent crime. There can never fully be closure. You have to learn to do the best you can. Tonight brings finality to a lot of emotional issues." " I know of no victim survivor who believes that the execution of the guilty murderer(s) brings closure to the emotional and/or psychological suffering  of that victim survivor for the loss of their innocent, murdered loved one(s). How could it?
 
I have never encountered such a person, in the many years I have been involved with murder victim survivors. Has anyone?
 
There are many victims survivors who claim they did find closure with the execution, although without important clarification.
 
Further inquiry would reveal the obvious: it is closure the the legal process, whereby execution is the most just sanction available for the crime and they are relieved that the murderer is dead  and can no longer harm another innocent – a very big deal.
 
Those are the real meanings of any closure expression.

Murder victim “Mary Bounds’ daughter, Jena Watson, who watched the execution, said Berry’s action deprived the family of a mother, a grandmother and a friend, and that pain will never go away.”

” “We feel that we have received justice,” she said Wednesday after the execution. “There’s never an end to the hurt from a violent crime. There can never fully be closure. You have to learn to do the best you can. Tonight brings finality to a lot of emotional issues.” “

]]> By: Windypundit http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/06/is-only-kelly-siegler-man-enough-to-tell-the-truth.html/comment-page-1#comment-3659 Windypundit Sun, 15 Jun 2008 16:10:40 +0000 http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/06/is-only-kelly-siegler-man-enough-to-tell-the-truth.html#comment-3659 "Closure" always seemed like a pretty trivial reason to kill someone. I can understand the desire for retribution and revenge. Justice and deterrence are reasons to allow it. But closure? That just sounds like psychobabble to me. “Closure” always seemed like a pretty trivial reason to kill someone. I can understand the desire for retribution and revenge. Justice and deterrence are reasons to allow it. But closure? That just sounds like psychobabble to me.

]]> By: Jigmeister http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/06/is-only-kelly-siegler-man-enough-to-tell-the-truth.html/comment-page-1#comment-3658 Jigmeister Sun, 15 Jun 2008 13:19:42 +0000 http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/06/is-only-kelly-siegler-man-enough-to-tell-the-truth.html#comment-3658 Here is a great short story by Jackson Dunne that aptly defines Closure. http://www.thrillingdetective.com/fiction/02_10_01.html Here is a great short story by Jackson Dunne that aptly defines Closure. http://www.thrillingdetective.com/fiction/02_10_01.html

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