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	<title>Comments on: Everyday Incidents</title>
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	<link>http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/08/everyday-incidents.html</link>
	<description>the tao of criminal defense trial lawyering</description>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/08/everyday-incidents.html/comment-page-1#comment-9280</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 12:55:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/08/everyday-incidents.html#comment-9280</guid>
		<description>This blog post is replacing one myth &quot;that cops don&#039;t lie&quot; with another myth that &quot;lie detector tests don&#039;t lie&quot;. Please do your own research on the reliability of polygraph tests before you trust your friend&#039;s word on the reliability of his trade.

The trained polygraph examiner uses the principle of misdirection to make his tests work. In other words, the questions that are supposed to act as the baseline questions are really not baseline questions at all -- they&#039;re just there for show. 

The real baseline questions are always unannounced and assumed by the polygraph examiner to either be true or false (based on the examiner&#039;s personal opinion). In other words, a polygraph examiner will first make the assumption that every man he encounters will lie by default on a particular topic, and that every woman he encounters will lie by default on another topic. And then, the polygraph examiner will innocently ask those (supposed) baselines questions during the interview (pretending that they&#039;re just some innocent random questions). So that&#039;s it, the entire exercise is just a magic trick that&#039;s based on flawed circular logic and a good dose of misdirection.

The only real reason it still is being used today is because it can be used pretty indiscriminately to intimidate/accuse suspects and intimidate/lay off government employees. In the wrong hands, it can be a very dangerous tool which helps consolidate the political power of power-hungry government/administration officials, and which destroys the political/security career of the people they disagree with.

Take a look at &lt;a href=&quot;http://antipolygraph.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://antipolygraph.org&lt;/a&gt; for some documentary proof and a bibliography which backs up and supports my (seemingly outlandish) claims.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This blog post is replacing one myth &#8220;that cops don&#8217;t lie&#8221; with another myth that &#8220;lie detector tests don&#8217;t lie&#8221;. Please do your own research on the reliability of polygraph tests before you trust your friend&#8217;s word on the reliability of his trade.</p>
<p>The trained polygraph examiner uses the principle of misdirection to make his tests work. In other words, the questions that are supposed to act as the baseline questions are really not baseline questions at all &#8212; they&#8217;re just there for show. </p>
<p>The real baseline questions are always unannounced and assumed by the polygraph examiner to either be true or false (based on the examiner&#8217;s personal opinion). In other words, a polygraph examiner will first make the assumption that every man he encounters will lie by default on a particular topic, and that every woman he encounters will lie by default on another topic. And then, the polygraph examiner will innocently ask those (supposed) baselines questions during the interview (pretending that they&#8217;re just some innocent random questions). So that&#8217;s it, the entire exercise is just a magic trick that&#8217;s based on flawed circular logic and a good dose of misdirection.</p>
<p>The only real reason it still is being used today is because it can be used pretty indiscriminately to intimidate/accuse suspects and intimidate/lay off government employees. In the wrong hands, it can be a very dangerous tool which helps consolidate the political power of power-hungry government/administration officials, and which destroys the political/security career of the people they disagree with.</p>
<p>Take a look at <a href="http://antipolygraph.org" rel="nofollow">http://antipolygraph.org</a> for some documentary proof and a bibliography which backs up and supports my (seemingly outlandish) claims.</p>
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		<title>By: &#8220;Testilying&#8221; an everyday occurrence &#171; West Virginia Criminal Law Blog</title>
		<link>http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/08/everyday-incidents.html/comment-page-1#comment-4624</link>
		<dc:creator>&#8220;Testilying&#8221; an everyday occurrence &#171; West Virginia Criminal Law Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:56:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/08/everyday-incidents.html#comment-4624</guid>
		<description>[...] an everyday&#160;occurrence Mark Bennett posted a few days ago about the &#8220;everyday incident&#8221; of cops committing perjury - or as they call it, &#8220;testilying.&#8221; He stated that:  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] an everyday&nbsp;occurrence Mark Bennett posted a few days ago about the &#8220;everyday incident&#8221; of cops committing perjury &#8211; or as they call it, &#8220;testilying.&#8221; He stated that:  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Joel Rosenberg</title>
		<link>http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/08/everyday-incidents.html/comment-page-1#comment-4613</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Rosenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:51:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/08/everyday-incidents.html#comment-4613</guid>
		<description>Knowing Mark, well, not at all, let me try a little mindreading, anyway:  the reason that he knows that his money is safe is not that the polygraph is accurate, but that it&#039;s feared; he&#039;s had a fair amount of experience, in his day job, of dealing with cops who have let bad behavior by other cops slide by.  

How&#039;m I doing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Knowing Mark, well, not at all, let me try a little mindreading, anyway:  the reason that he knows that his money is safe is not that the polygraph is accurate, but that it&#8217;s feared; he&#8217;s had a fair amount of experience, in his day job, of dealing with cops who have let bad behavior by other cops slide by.  </p>
<p>How&#8217;m I doing?</p>
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		<title>By: Gritsforbreakfast</title>
		<link>http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/08/everyday-incidents.html/comment-page-1#comment-4611</link>
		<dc:creator>Gritsforbreakfast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 22:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/08/everyday-incidents.html#comment-4611</guid>
		<description>Mark, on the subject of testilying, allow me to refer you to this recent law review article on the topic, see:

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=981416

As for Uncle Ken&#039;s cash prize, I sure wouldn&#039;t put up any money depending on polygraph as a reliable method of lie detection, particularly on that topic. One of the best ways to conceal deception from a polygraph is to use the equivalent of what method actors do - convince yourself of the lie. Many people do this routinely involving story lines that justify their own misdeeds or failure to do the right thing, so even if they did know of misconduct and cover it up, I&#039;d expect many defense attorneys to pass anyway. Ditto for prosecutors who conceal Brady information, etc..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark, on the subject of testilying, allow me to refer you to this recent law review article on the topic, see:</p>
<p><a href="http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=981416" rel="nofollow">http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=981416</a></p>
<p>As for Uncle Ken&#8217;s cash prize, I sure wouldn&#8217;t put up any money depending on polygraph as a reliable method of lie detection, particularly on that topic. One of the best ways to conceal deception from a polygraph is to use the equivalent of what method actors do &#8211; convince yourself of the lie. Many people do this routinely involving story lines that justify their own misdeeds or failure to do the right thing, so even if they did know of misconduct and cover it up, I&#8217;d expect many defense attorneys to pass anyway. Ditto for prosecutors who conceal Brady information, etc..</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Bennett</title>
		<link>http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/08/everyday-incidents.html/comment-page-1#comment-4608</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:23:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/08/everyday-incidents.html#comment-4608</guid>
		<description>Uncle Ken,

An interesting point. I don&#039;t know that I could pass that exam (but I&#039;m not sure I couldn&#039;t). Lawyers, unlike cops, have a &quot;rat rule&quot; that obligates them to report misconduct of which they know, and you might be surprised how broadly some of my brethren interpret that rule. Besides which, when a lawyer rats on a fellow lawyer, he is not pissing off a guy with a gun on whom his life is likely at some point to depend. Rather, he&#039;s cleaning up the profession.

I suspect I can find someone to pass your polygraph, but I know you&#039;re a gambling man -- what&#039;s your proposition, and what are your proposed stakes?

Irrelevant, of course, because people don&#039;t go to jail or prison (or, for that matter, avoid jail or prison) on the uncorroborated word of defense lawyers. They do on the uncorroborated word of cops. 

Can we agree that police officers (and defense lawyers) are neither more nor less honest than ordinary people -- that some hew to the truth, some are compulsive liars, and the vast majority are somewhere in between, depending on the circumstances?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uncle Ken,</p>
<p>An interesting point. I don&#8217;t know that I could pass that exam (but I&#8217;m not sure I couldn&#8217;t). Lawyers, unlike cops, have a &#8220;rat rule&#8221; that obligates them to report misconduct of which they know, and you might be surprised how broadly some of my brethren interpret that rule. Besides which, when a lawyer rats on a fellow lawyer, he is not pissing off a guy with a gun on whom his life is likely at some point to depend. Rather, he&#8217;s cleaning up the profession.</p>
<p>I suspect I can find someone to pass your polygraph, but I know you&#8217;re a gambling man &#8212; what&#8217;s your proposition, and what are your proposed stakes?</p>
<p>Irrelevant, of course, because people don&#8217;t go to jail or prison (or, for that matter, avoid jail or prison) on the uncorroborated word of defense lawyers. They do on the uncorroborated word of cops. </p>
<p>Can we agree that police officers (and defense lawyers) are neither more nor less honest than ordinary people &#8212; that some hew to the truth, some are compulsive liars, and the vast majority are somewhere in between, depending on the circumstances?</p>
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		<title>By: Uncle Ken</title>
		<link>http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/08/everyday-incidents.html/comment-page-1#comment-4602</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncle Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:15:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/08/everyday-incidents.html#comment-4602</guid>
		<description>And I’m thinking about offering a cash prize for any Houston or Harris County defense attorney who has been on the job for more than a year, and can pass a polygraph (administered by ex-DEA agent John Swartz) while saying that he has never failed to report the misconduct of another defense attorney.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I’m thinking about offering a cash prize for any Houston or Harris County defense attorney who has been on the job for more than a year, and can pass a polygraph (administered by ex-DEA agent John Swartz) while saying that he has never failed to report the misconduct of another defense attorney.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark's Dad</title>
		<link>http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/08/everyday-incidents.html/comment-page-1#comment-4592</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark's Dad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 13:25:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/08/everyday-incidents.html#comment-4592</guid>
		<description>Where you are wrong, son, is putting your money on the outcome of a polygraph test.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where you are wrong, son, is putting your money on the outcome of a polygraph test.</p>
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		<title>By: Glen R. Graham</title>
		<link>http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/08/everyday-incidents.html/comment-page-1#comment-4590</link>
		<dc:creator>Glen R. Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 06:57:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/08/everyday-incidents.html#comment-4590</guid>
		<description>Officer what is “testilying”?

Officer, do you know the name of any officers in your department who have received any discipline for testilying?

Officer do you know of any officer in your department who has ever being prosecuted, fired, or convicted for testilying?

Officer would you be willing to submit to a lie detector test administered by an independent lie detector administrator? 

Officer what is the “code of silence” between fellow police officers?

Officer, do you agree that a police officer being indicted for perjury by his co worker, the prosecutor, is about as likely as being struck down by thunderbolts?

Officer, do you know the name of any police officer in your department who has ever received a promotion or positive reward for breaking the &quot;code of silence&quot; against fellow police officers?
See my post about it on my blog.  Thanks - Glen</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Officer what is “testilying”?</p>
<p>Officer, do you know the name of any officers in your department who have received any discipline for testilying?</p>
<p>Officer do you know of any officer in your department who has ever being prosecuted, fired, or convicted for testilying?</p>
<p>Officer would you be willing to submit to a lie detector test administered by an independent lie detector administrator? </p>
<p>Officer what is the “code of silence” between fellow police officers?</p>
<p>Officer, do you agree that a police officer being indicted for perjury by his co worker, the prosecutor, is about as likely as being struck down by thunderbolts?</p>
<p>Officer, do you know the name of any police officer in your department who has ever received a promotion or positive reward for breaking the &#8220;code of silence&#8221; against fellow police officers?<br />
See my post about it on my blog.  Thanks &#8211; Glen</p>
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		<title>By: Terry Stop</title>
		<link>http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/08/everyday-incidents.html/comment-page-1#comment-4589</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry Stop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 00:34:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/08/everyday-incidents.html#comment-4589</guid>
		<description>Power corrupts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Power corrupts.</p>
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		<title>By: PJ</title>
		<link>http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/08/everyday-incidents.html/comment-page-1#comment-4588</link>
		<dc:creator>PJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 17:06:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2008/08/everyday-incidents.html#comment-4588</guid>
		<description>How can a prosecutor charge a cop with perjury when, after all, he is just making sure that &quot;justice&quot; is done.  Substantive &quot;justice.&quot; 

Nobody who works for the State (or municipality or county) understands what his or her damn job is.  Problem numero uno.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How can a prosecutor charge a cop with perjury when, after all, he is just making sure that &#8220;justice&#8221; is done.  Substantive &#8220;justice.&#8221; </p>
<p>Nobody who works for the State (or municipality or county) understands what his or her damn job is.  Problem numero uno.</p>
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