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	<title>Comments on: Avvo Answhores (Updated 11/30/2009)</title>
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	<description>the tao of criminal defense trial lawyering</description>
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		<title>By: Ron Phillips</title>
		<link>http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2009/11/avvo-answhores.html/comment-page-1#comment-12416</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Phillips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 21:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2009/11/avvo-answhores.html#comment-12416</guid>
		<description>Attorneys answering questions asked by non-attorneys in jurisdictions where they are not licensed to practice seems tantamount to practicing without a license. Most laypeople (Avvo readers) would not understand that attorneys must be admitted to the bar of the state(s) where they practice by demonstrating competence with the laws of that state. 

Avvo is a really neat idea that has a lot of potential. Unfortunately, a prolific few have decided that peeing in the well is a neat idea too. The value of Avvo to laypersons as a forum for educating themselves on legal issues is irreparably dimished when users have to wade through crap answers and unqualified opinions from professionals who should know better than answer questions from beyond where their license permits them to practice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Attorneys answering questions asked by non-attorneys in jurisdictions where they are not licensed to practice seems tantamount to practicing without a license. Most laypeople (Avvo readers) would not understand that attorneys must be admitted to the bar of the state(s) where they practice by demonstrating competence with the laws of that state. </p>
<p>Avvo is a really neat idea that has a lot of potential. Unfortunately, a prolific few have decided that peeing in the well is a neat idea too. The value of Avvo to laypersons as a forum for educating themselves on legal issues is irreparably dimished when users have to wade through crap answers and unqualified opinions from professionals who should know better than answer questions from beyond where their license permits them to practice.</p>
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		<title>By: The Spammer&#8217;s Lament &#171; Social Media Tyro</title>
		<link>http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2009/11/avvo-answhores.html/comment-page-1#comment-12305</link>
		<dc:creator>The Spammer&#8217;s Lament &#171; Social Media Tyro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 21:00:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2009/11/avvo-answhores.html#comment-12305</guid>
		<description>[...] Chicago lawyer Alan Brinkmeier in response to my Defending People post calling him out for spamming Avvo Answers: Anyway, even [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Chicago lawyer Alan Brinkmeier in response to my Defending People post calling him out for spamming Avvo Answers: Anyway, even [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Herman Martinez</title>
		<link>http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2009/11/avvo-answhores.html/comment-page-1#comment-12303</link>
		<dc:creator>Herman Martinez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 20:02:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2009/11/avvo-answhores.html#comment-12303</guid>
		<description>Mark,

I have contaced several times in the past to discontinue the practice of allowing attorneys commenting on cases outside of the state where they are licensed.  Eventually, I had an actual person contact me to inform that me that they could not stop the practice of allowing attorneys to answer questions that they have no business answering.  I told them that I found that answer lazy.  I told them if they were a responsible website they would not allow this practice of answering questions outside the jurisdiction where they are licensed.  A second person from Avvo contacted me suggesting that if I saw an answer that was merely for gaming the system to &quot;flag it is as objectionable.&quot;  Again, I found this to be a lazy answer from Avvo since I would be doing their work.  I have cut down on answering questions on their site since I spoke to the second person because I feel that the main focus is creating content for their webiste by having lawyers answer as many questions as possible.  Thus, their website moves up the search engines so that they can later charge for advertising.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark,</p>
<p>I have contaced several times in the past to discontinue the practice of allowing attorneys commenting on cases outside of the state where they are licensed.  Eventually, I had an actual person contact me to inform that me that they could not stop the practice of allowing attorneys to answer questions that they have no business answering.  I told them that I found that answer lazy.  I told them if they were a responsible website they would not allow this practice of answering questions outside the jurisdiction where they are licensed.  A second person from Avvo contacted me suggesting that if I saw an answer that was merely for gaming the system to &#8220;flag it is as objectionable.&#8221;  Again, I found this to be a lazy answer from Avvo since I would be doing their work.  I have cut down on answering questions on their site since I spoke to the second person because I feel that the main focus is creating content for their webiste by having lawyers answer as many questions as possible.  Thus, their website moves up the search engines so that they can later charge for advertising.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Bennett</title>
		<link>http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2009/11/avvo-answhores.html/comment-page-1#comment-12297</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 13:44:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2009/11/avvo-answhores.html#comment-12297</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m certain my phone didn&#039;t disconnect us (because it has never done so before). I know that I didn&#039;t disconnect us. Occam&#039;s Razor suggests that either your phone disconnected us or you hung up. Since you insist that the former is not true, I have to conclude that the latter is. You were so mad that you asked, &quot;why don&#039;t you retract it?&quot; and hung up.

Anyway, you&#039;ve inspired another blog post. So . . . you win?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m certain my phone didn&#8217;t disconnect us (because it has never done so before). I know that I didn&#8217;t disconnect us. Occam&#8217;s Razor suggests that either your phone disconnected us or you hung up. Since you insist that the former is not true, I have to conclude that the latter is. You were so mad that you asked, &#8220;why don&#8217;t you retract it?&#8221; and hung up.</p>
<p>Anyway, you&#8217;ve inspired another blog post. So . . . you win?</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Brinkmeier</title>
		<link>http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2009/11/avvo-answhores.html/comment-page-1#comment-12278</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Brinkmeier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 04:05:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2009/11/avvo-answhores.html#comment-12278</guid>
		<description>Mark,

Nothing is wrong with my phone, as I attempted to and did speak for about 15 seconds to explain some of the appeals I have done in a wide variety of areas of law only to realize you had left the line.

Anyway, even though you disagree that my free online participation is a positive thing, isn&#039;t it a lot more civil to have a dialogue such as this as opposed to your name calling blog [avvo-answhores.html].  One of the things I teach in ethics and professional responsibility to young lawyers is that civility assists lawyers to make a point more rationally, peacefully, and powerfully than name calling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark,</p>
<p>Nothing is wrong with my phone, as I attempted to and did speak for about 15 seconds to explain some of the appeals I have done in a wide variety of areas of law only to realize you had left the line.</p>
<p>Anyway, even though you disagree that my free online participation is a positive thing, isn&#8217;t it a lot more civil to have a dialogue such as this as opposed to your name calling blog [avvo-answhores.html].  One of the things I teach in ethics and professional responsibility to young lawyers is that civility assists lawyers to make a point more rationally, peacefully, and powerfully than name calling.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Bennett</title>
		<link>http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2009/11/avvo-answhores.html/comment-page-1#comment-12182</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 19:09:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2009/11/avvo-answhores.html#comment-12182</guid>
		<description>Alan,

Thanks for replying. 

Unless you are having some problem with your phone system, you—as I noted in my update—hung up on me. It was not the other way around.

Maybe you really think that you are making a positive contribution with answers like &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/how-do-i-appeal-for-a-other-than-honorable-dischar-168895.html#answer_212478&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt;, but your disclaimer—not &quot;a substitute for competent legal advice&quot;—says otherwise.

I&#039;ve got my hands full helping people who have questions that I have answers to, and I have a rule against providing legal advice—&lt;i&gt;pro bono&lt;/i&gt; or otherwise—in areas outside of my areas of licensure and special knowledge. So I decline your invitation to join you in answering questions from every state dealing with every topic of law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan,</p>
<p>Thanks for replying. </p>
<p>Unless you are having some problem with your phone system, you—as I noted in my update—hung up on me. It was not the other way around.</p>
<p>Maybe you really think that you are making a positive contribution with answers like <a href="http://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/how-do-i-appeal-for-a-other-than-honorable-dischar-168895.html#answer_212478" rel="nofollow">this</a>, but your disclaimer—not &#8220;a substitute for competent legal advice&#8221;—says otherwise.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve got my hands full helping people who have questions that I have answers to, and I have a rule against providing legal advice—<i>pro bono</i> or otherwise—in areas outside of my areas of licensure and special knowledge. So I decline your invitation to join you in answering questions from every state dealing with every topic of law.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Brinkmeier</title>
		<link>http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2009/11/avvo-answhores.html/comment-page-1#comment-12181</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Brinkmeier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 18:45:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2009/11/avvo-answhores.html#comment-12181</guid>
		<description>Mark

I am the Alan Brinkmeier that you say should &quot;recognize that they have no clue what they’re talking about&quot; and should, &quot;just keep their traps shut”.   When we spoke by phone this morning unfortunately you were not interested in hearing anything I said when you rudely hung up the phone on me when I inquired if you would consider removing the post about me if I explained why I participate in the online forum.

Here is my thinking. I volunteer by posting online in an effort to help those that take time to post their problems. I do not do this for some ill purpose or as a game. I have done this same kind of thing in my practice and this is another way, albeit online, in which I feel that I can share. More such volunteer effort is needed by us all and it binds us to our community in a positive way.  Try it.  You might like it.

I attempt to help people point them in the right direction for a potential solution to their problems knowing full well I am not their attorney.  I gain nothing. I have no ill-will in doing so.  I enjoy trying to help others with the questions they post. I join Ms. Henly (her post 26 Nov) and her thinking as I too really do like trying and helping these people.  I like it when someone phones me to thank me for a post I have made and follows up with another question. 

Other than the summer months of 2009 when I was fully engaged and could not post much, I continue to enjoy trying to help.

I have been lucky enough in my practice to do appeals which have pertained to a wide variety of legal issues such as product liability, wrongful death, contract, insurance, civil rights, constitutional law, police matters, government takings, and more.  By posting in the section that covers Appeals I do see and make observations on posts in these and other topics.  I am thankful to be able to talk with those people that have phoned me to talk about their situations further. You calling me an answhore on your post falls in the category of all name-calling – it does not further any positive dialogue.  

As I have often mentioned to people that ask, I think Avvo is only one of several tools that a person looking for an attorney should use to choose the right lawyer. 

Alan Brinkmeier</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark</p>
<p>I am the Alan Brinkmeier that you say should &#8220;recognize that they have no clue what they’re talking about&#8221; and should, &#8220;just keep their traps shut”.   When we spoke by phone this morning unfortunately you were not interested in hearing anything I said when you rudely hung up the phone on me when I inquired if you would consider removing the post about me if I explained why I participate in the online forum.</p>
<p>Here is my thinking. I volunteer by posting online in an effort to help those that take time to post their problems. I do not do this for some ill purpose or as a game. I have done this same kind of thing in my practice and this is another way, albeit online, in which I feel that I can share. More such volunteer effort is needed by us all and it binds us to our community in a positive way.  Try it.  You might like it.</p>
<p>I attempt to help people point them in the right direction for a potential solution to their problems knowing full well I am not their attorney.  I gain nothing. I have no ill-will in doing so.  I enjoy trying to help others with the questions they post. I join Ms. Henly (her post 26 Nov) and her thinking as I too really do like trying and helping these people.  I like it when someone phones me to thank me for a post I have made and follows up with another question. </p>
<p>Other than the summer months of 2009 when I was fully engaged and could not post much, I continue to enjoy trying to help.</p>
<p>I have been lucky enough in my practice to do appeals which have pertained to a wide variety of legal issues such as product liability, wrongful death, contract, insurance, civil rights, constitutional law, police matters, government takings, and more.  By posting in the section that covers Appeals I do see and make observations on posts in these and other topics.  I am thankful to be able to talk with those people that have phoned me to talk about their situations further. You calling me an answhore on your post falls in the category of all name-calling – it does not further any positive dialogue.  </p>
<p>As I have often mentioned to people that ask, I think Avvo is only one of several tools that a person looking for an attorney should use to choose the right lawyer. </p>
<p>Alan Brinkmeier</p>
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		<title>By: Carolyn Elefant</title>
		<link>http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2009/11/avvo-answhores.html/comment-page-1#comment-12175</link>
		<dc:creator>Carolyn Elefant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:43:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2009/11/avvo-answhores.html#comment-12175</guid>
		<description>Though I agree with all of your points, I disagree somewhat strenuously with a push for bar regulation.  Personally, I trust consumers, and I believe that consumers will realize when an answer is valuable and when it is not and will choose accordingly.  I also think that posts such as these which e-shame offending attorneys and companies will do far more to force these services to change than bar regulation.  Once the bars step in, these types of sites are forced down and there aren&#039;t any others to take their place.  Though on the surface, this may seem like a good result, all it does is open the door for those lawyers with the deepest pockets to leverage SEO and Google ads to get clients.  I realize that Avvo is far from perfect but with the changes that you&#039;ve recommended, it could become more useful to consumers as well as lawyers seeking to educate the public about the law.  The bar is not going to make recommendations - it will either give the site a thumbs up or a thumbs down and neither result will improve it (in contrast to the impact of market forces and e-shaming, which I believe will).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though I agree with all of your points, I disagree somewhat strenuously with a push for bar regulation.  Personally, I trust consumers, and I believe that consumers will realize when an answer is valuable and when it is not and will choose accordingly.  I also think that posts such as these which e-shame offending attorneys and companies will do far more to force these services to change than bar regulation.  Once the bars step in, these types of sites are forced down and there aren&#8217;t any others to take their place.  Though on the surface, this may seem like a good result, all it does is open the door for those lawyers with the deepest pockets to leverage SEO and Google ads to get clients.  I realize that Avvo is far from perfect but with the changes that you&#8217;ve recommended, it could become more useful to consumers as well as lawyers seeking to educate the public about the law.  The bar is not going to make recommendations &#8211; it will either give the site a thumbs up or a thumbs down and neither result will improve it (in contrast to the impact of market forces and e-shaming, which I believe will).</p>
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		<title>By: Jamison Koehler</title>
		<link>http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2009/11/avvo-answhores.html/comment-page-1#comment-12111</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamison Koehler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 17:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2009/11/avvo-answhores.html#comment-12111</guid>
		<description>Thank you for that insightful and refreshingly honest post. I too have had mixed feelings about Avvo.

I have no problem with the lawyers who simply agree with their &quot;esteemed&quot; colleagues on a response in order to score quick points.  That kind of strategy should be pretty transparent to everyone, including people who might consider hiring them.  

What bothers me are the lawyers who answer questions posed by someone who obviously already has a lawyer and who is just using the site to second-guess that lawyer.  Many people who are asking questions have just entered a guilty plea or are being encouraged to take a guilty plea.  Who does it help to second-guess the advice of the lawyer who negotiated this guilty plea and who is intimately familiar with the facts of the case.  And yet some lawyers will do precisely that.  They seem to suggest that they have gleaned something from the two- or three-sentence question that the questioner&#039;s retained counsel has somehow missed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for that insightful and refreshingly honest post. I too have had mixed feelings about Avvo.</p>
<p>I have no problem with the lawyers who simply agree with their &#8220;esteemed&#8221; colleagues on a response in order to score quick points.  That kind of strategy should be pretty transparent to everyone, including people who might consider hiring them.  </p>
<p>What bothers me are the lawyers who answer questions posed by someone who obviously already has a lawyer and who is just using the site to second-guess that lawyer.  Many people who are asking questions have just entered a guilty plea or are being encouraged to take a guilty plea.  Who does it help to second-guess the advice of the lawyer who negotiated this guilty plea and who is intimately familiar with the facts of the case.  And yet some lawyers will do precisely that.  They seem to suggest that they have gleaned something from the two- or three-sentence question that the questioner&#8217;s retained counsel has somehow missed.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Bennett</title>
		<link>http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2009/11/avvo-answhores.html/comment-page-1#comment-12089</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 01:34:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bennettandbennett.com/blog/2009/11/avvo-answhores.html#comment-12089</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re wrong, of course: the idea—facilitating Q&amp;A between lawyers and people with legal problems—is a laudable one. I give free legal advice (often of the &quot;don&#039;t talk to the cops&quot; or &quot;trust your lawyer&quot; variety) over the phone all the time; lots of criminal defense lawyers do so. They don&#039;t do it because it&#039;s good for business, but because it&#039;s good for society or because they like to help people. Avvo answers could be an extension of the same process—civic-minded lawyers pointing laypeople in the right direction, or demystifying the law for them.

Lots of lawyers don&#039;t give free advice, though, even when giving it would be no more work than refusing to give it, and make excuses for not doing so—speculative and unlikely liability, for example. By creating business incentives for lawyers to &quot;answer&quot; questions (even when they don&#039;t know the answers), Avvo has taken free legal advice out of the hands of lawyers who know the answers and share them because they care, and put it in the hands of marketers trying pathetically to get their names to the top of the page.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re wrong, of course: the idea—facilitating Q&amp;A between lawyers and people with legal problems—is a laudable one. I give free legal advice (often of the &#8220;don&#8217;t talk to the cops&#8221; or &#8220;trust your lawyer&#8221; variety) over the phone all the time; lots of criminal defense lawyers do so. They don&#8217;t do it because it&#8217;s good for business, but because it&#8217;s good for society or because they like to help people. Avvo answers could be an extension of the same process—civic-minded lawyers pointing laypeople in the right direction, or demystifying the law for them.</p>
<p>Lots of lawyers don&#8217;t give free advice, though, even when giving it would be no more work than refusing to give it, and make excuses for not doing so—speculative and unlikely liability, for example. By creating business incentives for lawyers to &#8220;answer&#8221; questions (even when they don&#8217;t know the answers), Avvo has taken free legal advice out of the hands of lawyers who know the answers and share them because they care, and put it in the hands of marketers trying pathetically to get their names to the top of the page.</p>
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